What if this is Boks’ best team?

Gavin Rich

It’s amazing what one win over the mighty All Blacks can do to change the public mood and you could sense a wave of positivity sweeping across the entire nation after those epic, emotional, final minutes where the Springboks stood firm against a tidal wave.

South Africans representative of all race groups, religious denominations and cultures would surely have united in sharing the emotion that flooded from the eyes of Pieter-Steph du Toit whose performance on the field and reaction to victory epitomised what playing for the nation clearly means to the players.

But in watching the Bok celebrations, a thought came to me: What if this is Rassie Erasmus’ best team? He said beforehand that the team he was putting onto the field was his strongest selection since he became Bok coach. And the result proved it.

Why that is a problem is that there were dissenting voices, led by Cosatu Western Cape General Secretary Tony Ehrenreich, who took issue with Erasmus over the racial mix of the team.

That wasn’t surprising on several levels. If you Google his name you will note that Ehrenreich tends to have something to say in the week building up to an All Black Test. Last year, he threatened a protest at Newlands when the All Blacks were there.

Ehrenreich of course has a right to his views. And he has given voice to what many would consider to be legitimate concerns. When Erasmus started out as Bok coach he was lauded for being the first national mentor to choose a black captain for a Test match and for the racial mix of his playing group.

If the coach accepted the praise then for exceeding what he is expected to, then it is only fair, and right, that he should be chided and questioned when he starts to slip up in the numbers game. He has set his own bar.

But Erasmus would have anticipated that slip for he will know as well as anyone that he is involved in a sport where there is a high attrition rate, meaning injuries. Sbu Nkosi, so excellent on the wing against England, is out injured. The man who replaced him, Makazole Mapimpi, is now also out injured. Trevor Nyakane is injured, Warrick Gelant is injured.

Where the likes of Ehrenreich and those rugby writers who also pounced on the reduction in the number of black players would have a point is that the production line in South African rugby has not been strong enough since unity to ensure that there are enough black players ready to step into the shoes of the injured black players.

But nobody can fault Erasmus for trying, and while he has become a bit of a broken gramophone when it comes to stressing the need to mix and match selections to build depth, many of the changes he has made appear to have been brought about by twin purpose.

For instance, the black players who were dropped to the bench from the team that started in Brisbane the previous week were Bongi Mbonambi and Elton Jantjies. Rugby is not an empirical science, and there is no clear right or wrong, but Malcolm Marx is in many people’s view the best hooker in the world, and Handre Pollard is a better gainline flyhalf than Jantjies. Jesse Kriel, in addition to experience, also has all the attributes of a wing, particularly the size needed against the All Blacks.

The selection of Steven Kitshoff as the starting loosehead ahead of Beast also made sense if you remember how good Kitshoff was when he started against the All Blacks at Newlands last October.

The need to transform is a non-negotiable and Erasmus bought into that when he accepted the job. I disagree with those whose knee-jerk response to every Bok defeat is to blame transformation. Invariably, when you press those people to be specific about their claims they have no answer.

But there are times when coaches, particularly those that have already shown their commitment to transformation and who definitely can’t be accused of not giving black players opportunities, should be allowed some flexibility when it is necessary.

The one drawback of being too strict in the application of racial quotas is that it leads to a situation where, for instance, an injury to a black flank who has no black player backing him up means that your star centre might have to be dropped. That makes no sense at all and we all saw on Saturday just how hard it is to beat the world’s best team.

When watching the Boks celebrate their win on Saturday, how many South Africans paid any attention to the racial mix of the players who had made them proud? Maybe some did, certainly those who support the All Blacks may have, but it is unlikely to have been the majority. It was an achievement that was good for the psyche of the nation.

Erasmus chose a team that was good enough to beat the All Blacks, which is not something many international coaches have managed over the past decade. To do it required some flexibility.

Commitment to transformation needs to be judged over a period of time and not on a weekly basis.

- Gavin Rich

Let's chat

  • SweetAz

    I am so sick of this whole racist transformation rigmarole. World Rugby Handbook https://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resources/World_Rugby_Handbook/EN/pubData/source/150114%20GF%20IRB%20Handbook%20Master%20English%20Version.pdf clearly states the following,
    1.13 shall not do anything which is likely to intimidate, offend, insult, humiliate
    or discriminate against any other Person on the ground of their religion,
    race, sex, sexual orientation, colour or national or ethnic origin;

    SARU is in clear breach of World Rugby Laws with their racist and discriminatory Quota policy. The sheer hypocrisy is mindblowing, the fact that we are even discussing this in percentages and admitting that some player will need to be dropped to find another player to make up and arbitrary government mandated quota is just ludicrous. If World Rugby had ANY integrity at all it would INSTRUCT SARU to immediately cease their racist selection policies or get suspended from all World Rugby sanctioned competitions.

    • Dr Hoffman

      Agree! If SARU wants to be racist then the boks must be booted out of world rugby just like they were in Apartheid days. Blatant racism and nothing gets said!

    • Beukes

      Agree 100%.
      At least thus article confirms again that the world has been playing against our B team the last years and the hypocrates(other national teams ) say nothing against it

    • Redge

      I wonder how many registered black rugby players there are in SA and how many white players? Traditionally blacks prefer playing soccer as Maori in NZ prefer to play league and not union. It is an absolute disgrace that a sport team is not selected on merit, as they were in SA before 1994. So after 25 years the black players are still disadvantaged, BS! From school level they get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to selections. The main reason why hundreds of players from SA plays overseas is the quota system and not money. There are simply not apportunities in SA. The rest of the world / hypocrites out there is quite about this reversed apartheid in SA. I get the idea that nowadays black on white racism is acceptable. Come on NZ you nearly killed each other in 1981 with anti-tour demonstrations but you are fine when it works the other way around? Fine to play a non-merit Bok team?

      • Sharky

        I agree with you but have to make just one observation – the protests in 1981 were because all but one race was excluded from selection. The current quota policies (though innately racist) have not gone that far… yet.

        • Dr Hoffman

          so u are saying its a different degree of racism. BS! Racism is racism and should never be tolerated ever!

        • Redge

          Agree Sharky it was worst under the apartheid regime never thought of it that way. It’s more about merit selections for me but you are absolutely right

    • Sharky

      I’ve heard the argument that the quota rules are not discrimination as no-one is being excluded – quotas are rather guaranteeing inclusion. I totally disagree with that logic. If you force someone in anotehr is necessarily excluded.

      In any event, any form of quota system will (and does!) cause other players to question the value of their black team mates. And those black team mates have to keep on proving themselves – because a white player who has a dip in form is a bad selection but a black player in the same situation is a quota. Psychologically that can’t be good for players of the team as a whole.

      Bottom line – scrap the quota and rather focus that energy on identifying promising black schoolboy players and getting them into strong rugby schools. That way those guys will get good rugby coaching from a young age, experience an established rugby culture, be front and center for Craven Week selections and get a good education as well. Consider a Grey Bloem 1st team with 8 black players in the starting XV. Now that would be a thing…!

      • Dinky

        I like your thinking and also happen to agree with you! I watch first xv high school rugby and it always amazes me how, after almost a quarter of a century, the Grey, Paul Roos, Gym, BoisHaai, Sacs and Rondebosch teams are still dominated by white kids! That is where we should strive for teams to be representative of SA demographics. The rest will follow naturally!

      • Mike Stoop

        Why would it even make sense that Grey would field a majority black players. Statistically, that would require Grey to have more than 50% black students, which means that Grey will no longer have Afrikaans as the language of instruction. That would mean that the Dutch beef would not be available for selection. Good luck to Grey College in their quest to remain a top Rugby School. Unless you advocate a discriminatory policy of only allowing top black sportsmen into Grey College, leaving other black students in the cold. Naughty, naughty.

        • Steven

          Sharky, I literally couldn’t agree with your idea, attitude and sentiment any more than I do. It is truly tragic that so few white and black people can see the incredible, non-racial, common sense in it. But please, never lose this attitude, and spread it wherever you possibly can, despite whatever backlash may ever come from it. And kudos to Mike for not getting hostile just because he doesn’t agree with you. Brilliant going both of you – may true South Africans of all colours learn from you both.

        • Sharky

          Mike, read my comment again… slowly. Especially the bit where I say “scrap the quota and rather focus that energy on identifying promising black schoolboy players and getting them into strong rugby schools.”

          I’ll break it down for you – find promising young black players (ones that are not already at good rugby schools like Grey) and place them at good rugby schools (like Grey). If you skim the top black talent from across the country and place them at Grey you would not need Grey to be 50% black to have a majority black team.

          • Sharky

            Mike, what I’m proposing is an additional scholarship, another cake and more pieces – so your zero sum game argument goes out the window. No one is losing out here – unless you consider the extra competition caused by including a few talented black kids in a school “losing out”. Are you against black students attending former white schools? Is it unfair to make talented white kids compete with talented black students?

            My idea will increase the overall pool of players by increase the overall number of black players. White kids who play rugby and love rugby will continue to play the game. But on top of that my suggestion will ALSO produce more black players. Come on buddy, no white kid is going to say “look, there’s a few extra black kids playing rugby at my school – I’m quitting the game”. And in any event, any white kid that would have gone to a good rugby school on a scholarship would still get into that same school on that same scholarship because I’m not proposing that schools preferentially accept black students. I’m talking about an ADDITIONAL scholarship fund. More cake, more pieces. The same number of white kids playing the sport plus more black kids playing the sport. 1 +1 = 2… Win-win! Then after school let the best of them make professional teams.

            You then go on to moan about the current system and black players being selected preferentially. That has nothing to do with what I’m suggesting. What I’m suggesting is allowing the net to be cast wider so that we capture the creme of the entire country’s rugby crop. Your response is to moan about the injustices of the current system. I’m with you on that. I hate the quota system. But just imagine if all of the quota players were actually better then the white players that they are pushing out. Statistically (given the differences in population size) that could be a factual reality IF we harnessed the whole country’s genetic potential.

            Your second to last paragraph is short-sighted and just plain stupid!! So stupid that it actually pissed me off. You seem satisfied with how Bok rugby is doing and hell bent on not seeking out the most talented boys irrespective of colour. “So what” if we don’t spread the rugby gospel? – you say. Come on!! If we love the sport and the Bok we will do all we can to spread the sport and to make sure that those with the God-given talent are exposed to rugbby so that the national cause will be advanced. Saying that you don’t want to scout for diamonds in the rough (and give them the opportunity to be polished) because that diamond may then take the place of a white kid is stupid and racist.

            Take your “I’ve been discriminated against” chip off your shoulder and look at the bigger picture! If we can get 50%, 60%, 70% of the country watching and playing the sport the Boks will inevitably become at least 50% black. And not because of quotas, but because we have found those additional talented black players who are currently being missed. That is true transformation. That is how we satisfy the government and at the same time become the best in the world.

          • Mike Stoop

            A “discriminatory practice” is the unjust or prejudicial treatment of any person on the grounds of race, gender or age. If one person is treated preferentially on any grounds, that unfortunately and unavoidably leads to someone else being treated unjustly. In any differentiation, discrimination will always be the result.

            In reality, as long as resources, such as places in top schools and the size of a scholarship fund, remains finite, it remains a zero sum game. You can’t advantage one individual without disadvantaging another. It is impossible to cut the cake into ever smaller pieces. Someone, unfortunately, will always lose out. Laudable as your proposal is, it will not increase the overall pool of players. It will only increase the number of black players. The number of available white players will decline, simply because they will leave the game, or they will leave the country, because someone else will always get the leg-up.

            Just count the number of white backline players, especially wings, at these “top rugby schools”. What happens to them after school? Very few of them make it into Craven week sides and from there to Varsity Cup or age group competitions. Statistically, it is impossible that suddenly, after school, they are all found to be inferior to their black counterparts. They leave the game, thus reducing the pool of quality players.

            South African Rugby is managing to socially engineer young white players out of rugby. Just watch Currie Cup rugby on a Saturday. In the Western Province, Carlo Sadie was the Super Rugby backup to Wilco Louw. He finally made it onto the bench for the Currie Cup game on Saturday. Neethling Fouche (Maties tighthead), was the Varsity Cup player that rocks. He can’t make it onto the field for WP. They are not kept out of the side by a better player.

            What is the bet that both these boys will not be contracted when the numbers are cut down. These are quality players. They will get contracts, but not in this country. That is the ultimate and inevitable result of the leg-up.

            “Most black kids don’t get the opportunity to play rugby”. Is sport not a voluntary pastime? Many more people don’t get the opportunity to play golf, basketball, baseball, tennis and polo. So what? If we had the money to give every person a chance to play all those sports, we may have been world champions in all of them. It does not mean we have to do it.

            In every theatre of life, a finite number of people will be successful. If you continue to socially engineer the opportunities to advantage certain groups, like it was done in the past, you will lose some of the best and most capable. If you don’t care about that, go ahead. Discriminate.

          • Sharky

            Mike, how is that a “discriminatory practice”? Finding talented black players and ensuring that they get the exposure that talented white players get is a leg up, not a hand out. And it does not take anything away from the white kids, but rather adds to the system as a whole. Okay, let’s tackle your comment point by point:

            1) “It would still be a discriminatory practice.”

            No, it wouldn’t. I think that teams should be selected on merit. My suggestion just means the talent pool at a school would include a few extra black players who may otherwise not have attended that school (or any other rugby-playing school for that matter) and would therefore most likely have been lost to the system. It’s about utilising all of South Africa’s genetic potential, not just 15-20% as we currently do, and ensuring that we do actually select the cream of the crop – irrespective of race.

            Many (if not all) good rugby schools already offer sporting scholarships. But some promising black players may have parents that don’t even know that these things exist let alone how to apply. They may not even consider rugby as a viable career for a black kid. What I’m suggesting is a secondary scholarship fund (operating in tandem with schools’ own funds) that would identify good prospects who are not already at established rugby-playing schools and make it possible for them to attending those schools.

            Nowhere would my suggestion disadvantage anyone. All the white kids that would have gotten sports scholarships would still get those scholarships. But yes, they may have to now compete with a few more kids (who incidentally are black) for position in the A team.

            2) “A quota system by another name”. Debunked – see above. There would be no quotas involved.

            3) “You want to include black players, simply because they are black.”

            No, I want to include promising young black players because they are promising. The fact that they are black is more relevant to the question of why they are not already in the rugby system. The goal here is not to get more black players into the Bok team, but to make sure that more talent is spotted and developed. And if that talent is worthy of getting into a professional set-up on merit then my proposed scholarship system will have added players to the national rugby-playing talent pool that may otherwise have been missed.

            3) “You can’t win this one.” I disagree – I am busy winning. Read on…

            4) “As long as players are considered to be worthy of special treatment because of their colour, that would require discrimination against someone else, whether it is the black student who is disregarded because he is not a top sportsman, or a white player who won’t make it into Grey, because his father can’t afford the fees, even though he is also a promising sportsman.”

            I agree with some of what you said here. But the key point that you miss out on is that the new scholarship fund that I propose would not take anything away from white kids – it merely adds more black kids into the mix – a mix where those kids can compete for positions and where the best kid can be selected (irrespective of colour). My suggestion will, in effect, add more scholarship sports in the top schools.

            You also miss the fact that a poor, promising young white player playing rugby at a formerly white primary school is much more likely to be spotted by the likes of Grey and offered a scholarship than a promising, poor young black player playing in the townships (or who isn’t regularly playing rugby but has shown promise at development clinics).

            You also missed that white kid’s parents are probably more likely to be aware of the potential for their kid’s sporting ability to get him scholarships. But again, this isn’t about getting more black talent into the system per se, it’s about making sure that we spot and develop as much of the talent that we have as possible (irrespective of colour).

            5) “The only solution is to completely disregard race as a consideration, is it not?”

            Yes, for team selection. Absolutely! But it is a quantifiable fact that in SA with regard to rugby there is not a level playing field across the races. Most black kids not being given the opportunity to play rugby let alone rugby at a good rugby-playing school. These are kids that could be future Boks if given the opportunity, but who are missed by virtue of where they were born.

            But, as I said before, my suggestion is not about giving black kids preferential treatment or taking anything away from white kids; it’s about making sure we are actually selecting the best we have and not just the best of those lucky enough to have been born into a white, rugby-loving family. It’s about harnessing and utilising everyone we have and not simply hoping that all kids with rugby potential magically make their way into a rugby-playing school.

          • Mike Stoop

            It would still be a discriminatory practice. A quota system by another name. You want to include black players, simply because they are black. You can’t win this one. As long as players are considered to be worthy of special treatment because of their colour, that would require discrimination against someone else, whether it is the black student who is disregarded because he is not a top sportsman, or a white player who won’t make it into Grey, because his father can’t afford the fees, even though he is also a promising sportsman.

            The only solution is to completely disregard race as a consideration, is it not?

      • Ivan

        Fully agree about the Grey Bloem comment

      • Chris Mouton

        I fully agree with you, Sharky!

        • Jahn

          “The only solution is to completely disregard race as a consideration, is it not?”

          Boys and Girls, this completely highlights the fundamental issue in South Africa not only in sports but in the economy. Sports will leed the way in rectification, so If they dont get it right on the playing field they wont get it right in the economy, as said before, ” the suggestion is not about giving black kids preferential treatment or taking anything away from white kids; it’s about making sure we are actually selecting the best we have” Once this is in place the roll out will be the better for South Africa as a whole, on and off the field.

  • Jacques

    Good Idea for everyone to go and actually read the agreement on transformation which was agreed by SARU and Government.

    In short target to achieve is not on single test matches but collective progress and test for the year. People are short-minded and the likes of Cosatu just want their spotlight in the media and the best way they can get it is before every All Black test.

    • Tobokani

      The less attention we give to clowns like COSATU, the sooner nee they will shut up,.. Its because everytime they open their mouths, their stupid comments end up as headlines which only serves to encourage them further. They have list revance in the political sphere so now they want to come and ruin sport for us.. Bunch of assholes

      • Mike

        Very true…well said. Pure politics and ‘power’ games for own gain. No sense in the real world. Proudly SA!

  • Vossie

    Did anyone notice during the press conference the gentlemen asking some silly questions.
    – asked Rassie if he is aware about the statement from cosatu and his comments.
    – asked Steve Hansen about Dyanti’s performance and what he would he would say to him (had a brilliant game but what about the other 22 players?)

    This was the same guy and it was clear that he was sent over there for one purpose.

    What a shame, instead of praising the Boks for their achievement he only had one goal in mind and that was to take the shine away from a bloody good victory!

    Ridiculous!!!

    • Barry Smith

      Agreed. To some degree this sort of nonsense plays into our hands. There is a growing international disregard for the racial policies that we face in SA and in a way these sort of “out of place” comments just adds to those growing concerns!

    • Chris Mouton

      Yeah, but luckily they knew how to negate his stupid questions.

  • boyo

    Thanks for talking about the transformation issue Gavin too many Journo’s just avoid it.

    It doesn’t need to be this dividing force! Lets be honest that a quota/KPI is there and lets try and reach it without becoming inflexible. I think Rassie has approached it correctly he is open about the need to transform and give Black players a proper chance but to truly bring the game to more people the transformed team needs to win and that means flexibility for injuries rotation etc.

    As a rugby fan I want as many SA people watching, supporting and playing rugby as possible and to have that we need a transformed team that can be watched on SABC. We have seen Am, nKosi, Dyanthi, Siya, Beast, Mapimpi and Bongi get regular game time(barring injuries and rotation) those are top players and deserve to be there and when you have a team with a lot of those players beating the All Blacks you have the recipe for a huge increase in the footprint of the game.

    Force players that are not at the standard yet into the team though and you ruin the player,upset fans and upset the cohesion of the team. You have to be flexible as you say and aim for targets over a 4 year period and not game by game.

    • Dr Hoffman

      “As a rugby fan I want as many SA people watching, supporting and playing rugby as possible and to have that we need a transformed team ” So for more people to be interested they need to see players of the same colour as them? Why? Thats racist! I dont need to see any type of skin colour on a player, i love rugby and want only the best to play, no matter what colour. If you need the players to be a certain skin colour in order for you to be interested then u are nothing more than a racist. If they dont like the white skin then dont watch, we dont need racists in our sport.

      • SweetAz

        LOL, doc. Did you miss the memo? Only white people can be racist and anything that can be done to disadvantage them is only “levelling the playing field”. Some of these people need to look up “Orwellian”

    • Redge

      Agree Boyo valid points

    • Morne Botha

      Brilliantly said. Respect.

    • Barry Smith

      You are quite correct, but why is it that we are not hearing the united voices of Black moderates supporting progress that has been made and discounting the radicalism that comes through from other sectors such as COSATU?

      • SweetAz

        Because black moderates are scared of being labelled “sellouts” and ending up with a burning Dunlop 185/14 around their necks. Or maybe there really are no black “moderates” and they secretly take great pleasure in everything happening now?

  • Wesley

    COSATU is failing at every prospect of their mandate as a union to further the opportunity and fair treatment of workers in SA. They are desperately trying to cling to public relevance after many scandals and membership breakaways such as AMCU and the like. Rather than writing press releases about the appalling nature of some of the labor practices in SA that includes thousands of people, they would rather target the composition of some 30 rugby players out of a pool of say 50 Bok possibles (including those with injury), guessing none of which are members of their union anyway.

    Also, in what interest does Tony and his cronies share? Are they avid rugby and SPRINGBOK supporters? Sure, they can support and say what they want, but do they have mandate or operate within any sphere of Springbok rugby administration or player labor relations, or at least have a passion for what is best for the players of it? Some of the Gov reps are questionable sometimes in their allegiances to Bok rugby, but they are at least democratically mandated to govern (although poorly) sport in this country. What does COSATU have to do with this? And why Tony doing the speaking? He is only the WC general secretary. Does he now speak for the entire country’s membership or board or whatever? I’m almost sure he has a AB jersey in his closet. So all of the above actually disqualified him to speak about Bok rugby, other than his sour opinion possibly on his teams loss this weekend. :)

  • Nick

    On the button Wesley. Heaven forbid COSATU should be held accountable for what it should be there for.

    • Wesley

      Thanks Nick. There are many relevant, although sometimes meddling hands, trying to steer the Bok ship into more inclusive waters. We dont need these “farts in a thunderstorm” even influencing the discourse or even meriting a mention by Gavin here. Good premise as a article, but lost me in including these as a “voice of relevant concern”. The dwindling supporter base and quick upshot of interest when Siya was made captain is just minor examples but enough voice for an inclusive sport this country is calling for, but obviously not to the determent of Bok rugby. Certainly the type cosatu and old Tony is calling for not with interest in building up, but to break down.

  • Nick

    Rugby is just an easy, visible target.

  • Ntoni

    Rassie knew it was possible to win the all blacks on Saturday. He did it with the best available side. South Africa loved it. Even those who cry transform transform knew it brought happiness to many here and abroad. I only think and feel that 50 % non white players for next years world cup is going to be a little bit to much of a hurdle to climb. I think we should work with those that are already in the squad now and let the team settle. Cheslin kolbe don’t impress me yet. Maybe with time I don’t know. And of course the players that are injured must still come back and some of the overseas based boks as well.

    I love what coach/ director Rassie is doing. Rugby fans love him. Losing to Argentina and Australia made him play and showed more than he wanted to against New Zealand. I really think he knows what he is doing. Yes we debate and stress of what I think he has under control.

    We also see now that a springbok team that consist of 34% black players can win the all blacks. Good luck to Rassie and his team for the rest of the tournament.

  • William Botha

    The iconic image of the test is Pieter-Steph Du Toit in a firm, tearful embrace with Bongi Mbonambi.

    That is the image I – sitting in my chair in Utah, I will always remember from this test. Or was it that scintillating step from Aphiwe Dyantyi to beat the world’s best flyhalf right now; Beauden Barrett? Maybe.

    Nah!! It’s the Du Toit Mbonambi clinch.

    “Just for clarity, previously advantaged white African here.

    • Redge

      Agree. The politicians use rugby as a election tool. The players are like brothers no matter their colour. I also get pissed off with idiots that still critised Kolisi even after the AB game. Jeez what else do they want this guy to do? I’m sure it’s a combination of anti-black and provincialism (still a massive problem in SA) Kolisi must have a lot of pressure on him. Ask the players if he’s a good captain don’t judge the guy from your chair in front of the TV. Read what Etsebeth and other players says about Kolisi. He is a wonderful player with a great, humble personality. Get a life!

  • Dean

    Willie, Nkosi, Am, Steyn/Serfontein, Dyantyi, Pollard, de Klerk, Vermeulen, PS, Kolisi, Mostert, Etzebeth, Nyakane, Marx, Beast, Mbonambi, Kitshoff, Malherbe, RG, Whiteley, Papier, Elton, Gelant. That’s only 10 out of 23 giving you only about 40%. How is Rassie supposed to make this work by next year’s World Cup? There’s no way Notshe, Orie and Qcoboka will leapfrog the current group unless there are some injuries and serious dip in form. Then we still have to consider that Akker, W Louw, Lood de Jager and Marcell Coetzee will be pushing hard for places in that 23.

    • Redge

      That’s next years problem. We’ve heard the threats about 40-50% before

  • Frans

    These guys can play, each and everyone of them. All they need is self believe and this game is a good start for that. I do not see any of the black blokes as quota players. All are well deserving to be there. We may differ from Rassie about some of his selections but not because of race.
    Good on you guys!!! My comment about the old SA flag is that it is just that, an old flag, we cannot control folks holding on to their past, it is really their problem to live with. Anybody offended by it, please ignore it, it doesn’t not represent the majority of Afrikaners.

    • SweetAz

      Nothing wrong with that flag mate, read a bit of history to understand that.

      https://samilhistory.com/tag/south-african-flags/
      That flag predates “apartheid” and is an accurate depiction of the formation of our country,—not some rainbow coloured sideways underpants that has no meaning. It is the flag that flew over the worlds first heart transplant and over the country that built the biggest hospital in the world, invented a process to make petrol out of coal and many other exceptional things. The problem is that you have 45 million people with no clue, no education and just the BS rhetoric spewed at them from some hate-filled red beret moron. I will never apologize for that flag, in fact, I am happy and proud to salute it when I see it.

      AND I”M NOT EVEN AN AFRIKANER.—just someone who meant it when we sang “ons sal offer wat jy vra”

    • Redge

      Agree WTF. You will always get idiots who will stuff up

  • Alastair Campbell

    SweetAZ by your “logic” the swastika is a wonderful flag because the Germans at the time were a preeminent nation in the sciences. The fact they murdered six million people and burned down most of the civilized world is, by your logic, something to be ignored. I find your remark beyond stupid. I suggest you spend some time reflecting on the tens of millions of people subjugated under that flag before you make these sort of flippant remarks.

    • Wesley

      Alastair, don’t get into it with Sweet, he has outed himself as a racist although denying it, basing his logic on racial grounds instead of factual. Just to be clear:

      Racist
      noun
      a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

      • Mike Stoop

        Discrimination is the inevitable result of differentiation. In fact, the purpose of differentiation is to discriminate. It has always been. By the Nazi’s, by the Nationalists of Apartheid and now by the new African Nationalists. When a government talks of a certain group of people as “their people”, they are differentiating and discriminating.

        If you are a person who differentiates for the purpose of discrimination, try not to cast the first stone. Yours is a glass house too.

        • Herman Schroder?

          I agree and especially when the call of ‘kill the whites’ from comrades loyal to our two leading ‘black’ dominated parties is ignored by all and sundry and no action taken. Cheers.

      • SweetAz

        moron noun
        mo·ron | \ ˈmȯr-ˌän \
        Definition of Moron
        1 : a very stupid person
        They were acting like a bunch of morons.
        2 dated, now offensive : a person affected with mild mental retardation

        • Wesley

          Haha Sweet you make me laugh. Now dont go getting terminally sick in an area devoid of white faces hey. You might just have to refuse treatment from that “underqualified” doctor… :) i certainly will miss our time together here on these comments sections.

    • SweetAz

      Alastair, I find YOU beyond stupid,–conflating the NAZI flag with the OLD South African flag is not even a strawman argumant,—its about on the level of toiletpaperman argument. The OLD South African flag (if you read the link I provided) was nothing more than a unifying symbol joining the Boer Republics with the Cape And Natal Colonies, legitimizing and acknowledging the founding participants of South Africa. IT PREDATED APARTHEID BY A LONG TIME>
      The NAzi flag was the flag of a POLITICAL PARTY that ruled Germany during the Second World War. You would have more of an argument if you compared the AWB FLAG to the NAZI flag.

      SOUTH AFRICA MUST BE THE ONLY PLACE ON EARTH WHERE A SUBJUGATED AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE MANAGED TO INCREASE THEIR POPULATION BY 800% in less than 50 years. RIDDLE ME THAT BATMAN??? Nothing flippant about that mate,-just fact.

  • Nick.

    Sweetaz, If such a thing is possible, you have hit a new low.
    You must have studied History in the wonderful old RSA you keep reminiscing about. History is clearly not your area of expertise either.

    • SweetAz

      Yeah, I LIVED the actual history before the Wakandans revised it, befur we wuz kangs,–LOL. Here we go, get triggered some more.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/84g1vt/south_africa_population_1910_to_2016/

      You know, I could kill you with facts all the day long but its a waste of my time, you have comprehension issues and coupled with your genetic predisposition towards the Dunning Kruger effect it would be lost on you anyway.

      You would probably be best served by applying Occam’s razor and understanding that when people do stupid shit over and over again over an extended period of time the SIMPLEST explanation is usually the correct one,—-they ARE in fact stupid.

      FACTS don’t care whether you like them or not, I don’t either.

  • Alastair Campbell

    SweetAz is just a troll. He should be ignored.

Comments are closed.