Raters slam Rhule, Coetzee

Nobody is more culpable for the biggest defeat in Springbok history than Allister Coetzee and Raymond Rhule, according to the Raters.

The All Out Rugby Player Ratings offers fans the opportunity to put a number on their opinions after a weekend of rugby drama by Rating the Bok players and coach out of 10. After the deadline at midnight on a Monday, every submission is then tallied to form the official All Out Rugby Player Ratings.

The Boks crashed to a new low in Albany on Saturday, beaten to a pulp by an All Blacks team that ran in eight unanswered tries in a 57-0 romp.

Under Coetzee, the Boks have now slumped to three successive losses against New Zealand, conceding 23 tries and scoring one, while allowing 155 points and scoring 28. Joe Rater didn’t pull any punches – the Bok coach was tagged with an embarrassing 0.9 grade.

But if the Bok coach thinks he’s taking it in the neck this week, perhaps he should try walking a few steps in Rhule’s shoes. After the Cheetahs flyer missed nine tackles on Saturday – and his opposite number, Rieko Ioane ran for 201 metres – Rhule ‘won’ the Moegoe of the Week award with a Rating that will make your eyes water – 0.7!

Replacement centre Damian de Allende only played for 10 minutes and he almost doubled that score (1.3).

While Malcolm Marx escaped a public flogging for missing numerous lineouts, the hooker may struggle to chew on the celebratory cupcake that comes with being named the Bok MVP, given that his team-high Rating was a dismal 4.2.

AOR player ratings (Springboks vs New Zealand, Albany, September 16):
MVP: Malcolm Marx (4.2)
Moegoe: Raymond Rhule (0.7)
Highest rated bench player: Steven Kitshoff (2.8)
Coach Allister Coetzee: 0.9
Referee Nigel Owens (WAL): 5.2

CLICK HERE to see all the Player Ratings.

- All Out Rugby Staff Writer

Let's chat

  • Johan

    Where in SA did you ever imagine the referee would be rated higher than any Bok player :D

    • Sharky

      Did you ever thing that the ref would get a rating more than double the Bok average? I am still in shock

  • Spartan

    Race driven rating as usual.

    Let’s actually calm down and assess what went wrong on Saturday. We need to give far more weight to mistakes made in the first half than mistakes made in the second half. A mistake made when we’re down 10 points is far more costly to the team than a mistake made when we down 40 points. Now who are the main first half culprits?

    1 – Jan got dominated by Beauden, losing the ball in contact. The ensuing mess at the base of the ruck gifted the ABs a penalty, allowing Aaron to chip for a Rieko try.
    2 – Jean-luc’s pass was intercepted, gifting the ABs a try.
    3 – The ABs are allowed to easily make their way towards our tryline because of passive defence. A brilliant crossfield kick results in a try. You can blame this try on Allister, as decent line speed or the selection of a pilferer in the back row could’ve prevented it.
    4 – Elton kicks towards the NZ backs. The execution the poor, as it gave Rieko an opportunity to run at one of our slower players (Marx). This poor kick results in a try.

    Three of the four tries were down to poor individual mistakes by Jan, Jean-luc and Elton. These individuals deserve the worst ratings. Raymond missed many tackles and he should be punished for this, but his missed tackles didn’t cause any of the first half tries. It’s beyond me how Jan gets a better rating than Jesse, Raymond and Courtnall, players who didn’t concede crucial points.

    And then there’s the bizarre score of Malcolm. He may have been brilliant in general play, but his poor throwing killed our momentum. Lineout throwing is his primary objective. For a team like SA that is so heavily reliant on the set piece his poor throwing was a dealbreaker. How Uzair scored worst than every other forward also makes me question the real motivation behind these ratings. I acknowledge Uzair’s poor pass to Andries (which cost us a try), but how does he get almost half the score of Franco, a man who looked sluggish all day (and who must take partial responsibility as the lineout caller)? The fact that Uzair gets a lower score than Handre has racism written all over it.

    • francois williams

      Totally agree…racism and provincialism…the Bok team consists of WP and BB quotas…

    • Chris

      No the ratings has nothing to do with race . Look in the mirror . It’s also about the number of mistakes and general play etc and not just about points scored from your mistakes . Take into account that for every missed tackle from Rhule the whole team had to scramble which puts extra pressure on the team . Rhule can’t kick either and is iffy under the high ball . Missed tackles etc can also indirectly lead to tries . Keep race out of it

      • francois williams

        Nonsense…most of Rhule’smissed tackles were made because he was chaing hard, it is very easy to beat a man who is charging up at speed…Rhule was far from the centre of the problem, which involved two WHITE quotas, namely Hougaard and Marx, it was here at line outs and lousy service to the flyhalf, where the game was destroyed for the Boks…to blame Rhule at all is totally racist and ridiculous, the main culprits were allWHITE players…FACT!

    • Tiaan Janse van Renburg

      ja nee bring maar die “racism” word weer in…ai tog word groot asb

    • Sharky

      Was waiting for the race card to come out.

      Joe Public is emotional. Joe Public gets very upset when his team get a whipping. Joe Public also has a less than perfect memory, but he remembers consistent good performances just as well as he remembers consistent poor performances and, somewhere at in the back of his mind, he remembers that in South Africa players are not always selected on merit. Marx has had a good run of stellar performances – maybe that’s why he was rated better than he should have. Some see Pollard as the savior of Bok rugby – hence his inflated rating. Rhule, on the other hand is the perfect scapegoat – his selection was suspect to begin with, he has been consistently poor for the Boks and he had a shocker against the All Blacks. So he was always going to take some stick from Boks supporters (you may read “racists”).

      But at the same time these “racists” have been singing Kolisi’s praises and have been captivated by Beast’s return to form. Joe Public has been questioning whether the likes of Cassiem, Jantjies, Rhule and (to a lesser degree) Skosan have what it takes to be Boks. But at the same time Joe Public have also questioned the selection of Hougaard, Serfontein, Kriel, and Cotzee. So why is it when Joe lambasts the under-performing white players we all agree, but when he does the same to black players he’s a “racist”?

      The only racism here is in the non-merit-based selection policies that all Bok lovers have learnt to hate. If this has tainted Joe Public’s perception of certain players it is the fault of the politicians and administrators and not some anti-black player racist conspiracy.

      • Spartan

        “Marx has had a good run of stellar performances – maybe that’s why he was rated better than he should have”

        Poor reasoning. Clearly the raters don’t understand the purpose of these ratings. Previous performances aren’t meant to play a role. These ratings are based purely on the match, not an average over multiple matches.

        “Rhule, on the other hand is the perfect scapegoat – his selection was suspect to begin with, he has been consistently poor for the Boks and he had a shocker against the All Blacks.”

        Rhule didn’t concede 7 points, unlike Jean-luc, Jan and Elton.

        “Joe Public has been questioning whether the likes of Cassiem, Jantjies, Rhule and (to a lesser degree) Skosan have what it takes to be Boks.”

        They have the right to question, but that should not factor into match ratings. You’re effectively saying that even if Uzair scores 3 tries he shouldn’t get a good rating because his selection is supposedly unwarranted. That is nonsense.

        “So why is it when Joe lambasts the under-performing white players we all agree, but when he does the same to black players he’s a “racist”?”

        There’s nothing wrong with criticising underperformers, but ratings must be fair.

        • Bok befok

          “So why is it when Joe lambasts the under-performing white players we all agree, but when he does the same to black players he’s a “racist”?”

          it is the fact the the Black player gets “Moegoe of the week” while the 9 handling error white player (Francois Hougaard) scores twice as much, and the white hooker who botched 5 line outs earns MVP.

          • Sharky

            Bok befok, its actually xenophobia as well as racism that caused Rhule to get Moegoe of the week. You know how much us South Africans hate other Africans. And Marx got MVP because he’s been the Boks’ star performer this year and because all other candidates were either black of Afrikaans… and we all know that Joe would never allow that.

            But in all seriousness, there are myriad reasons why Rhule got such a bad rating. I have mentioned quite a lot of them – consistently poor performances, a sense that he doesn’t deserve to be in the team, the fact that he had a shocker (again!) and maybe also a desire to use his rating as a way to show disapproval towards our flawed, non-merit-based selection process.

            But also, you need to see these ratings in perspective. The white player that you feel the “racist” Joe Public went easy on got 1.6/10. That’s 16% – way beyond a fail!! Picture that really dumb 21 year old kid sitting at the back of a standard 8, lower grade maths class who’s still failing. That’s what Hougaard’s grade translates to. Rhule got a worse grade, yes. But in all truth neither him nor Rhule should be anywhere near a Bok jersey.

        • Sharky

          All I can hear is a million tiny violins.

          Public rating are never going to be “fair”. You are asking people for their opinion – their gut reaction. That’s always gong to be coloured by previous performances. And consistently poor performances coupled with a poor performance on the day will always attract a lower rating than someone who makes one mistake on the day which leads to a try. Fair or not that’s the way it is.

          And it’s not like Jean-Luc and the other white Boks got stellar ratings either. All Boks got bad ratings. You just seem to take exception with the fact that the worst rated player was black. Hougaard didn’t fair much better – why aren’t you calling Joe Public anti-Afrikaans?

          Of the 5 players who were rated above 3 – 2 were English (40%), 2 were Afrikaans (40%) and 1 was black (20%). Of the 8 players who were rated below 2 – 4 were Afrikaans (50%), 3 were black (37.5%) and 1 was coloured (12.5%). Why were no English speaking players rated below 2!? Not even Kriel!! I think Joe Public MUST favour English speakers and hate Afrikaans speakers!! Now there’s a conspiracy…

          • TheSpecialOne

            Well I’ve read this exchange and I must say Sharky, I think you’ve made more sense than almost anything I’ve ever read on this forum.

            One of the problems with the sort of identity politics Spartan is playing is that it’s next to impossible to maintain consistency when doing so. This introduces the often missed irony — as Spartan does — of the ‘ism’ caller revealing their own prejudices more than anything else.

            Spartan, you should also look into the difference between a positive and normative statement. Sharky is making the former on the subject of ratings.

      • Tiaan Janse van Renburg

        PRAGTIG Ggestel Sharky…..jy slaan daardie “racism” cpmment teen die voorkop.

  • Lions Fan '82

    Yes, well put Sharky! You covered just about everything there.
    Man, I hope we can put all this crap behind us pretty soon. Every thumping over the last year has left us with a rollercoaster ride of emotions. The build-up and excitement, the hope and belief, and then we get jerked back down to earth. Then comes the sadness, the anger, the blame, “heads must roll” attitude, and all too often this race crap…. We’ve been through this “a record” number of times this last year.
    All we can do now is wait and see what the brains trust can come up with. They were doing pretty well up until Friday and were highly praised by us all. Can we put our hopes on them to come up with the goods. ( My oupa het altyd gesê, “hoop in een hand en poep in die ander hand, en jy sal sien dit lyk baie dieselfde”) Think they know by now what the public thinks. Still waiting for that headline that reads “S.O.S answered by Combrink”

    • Sharky

      True! I’ve been living in the UK for 10 years now and I’m getting tired of my colleagues taking the piss out of me for being a Bok fan. Someone needs to sort this mess out.

      Something occurred to me the other day – in the past Bok fans have had their provincial biases and favourite players who they wanted to see in the green and gold. There have always been squabbles here and there. But this year something has changed. For the first time in my life the vast majority of Bok supporters have had the same selection complaints. Almost everyone has said that our back 3 isn’t up to it. Almost everyone has said that our centers are sub-par. Almost everyone has their doubts about Jantjies, Hougaard and Cassiem. That’s all the Boks from 8 to 15!! Most Bok supporters think that over half of the players in the starting 15 are not the best we have to offer. Where is Combrink, Am, Janse van Rensburg, Nkosi etc? Why is it only the Bok coach who doesn’t think that these guys should be in the side?

      I will say it again – our gameplan is good, we just haven’t selected the personnel to execute it!

      • francois williams

        Reason being that there are fewer Cheetah supporters as Bloem is a small city…so Cheetahs players like Cassiem nd Rhule will never have ‘popular’ support above the perenial WP and BB quatas…

      • TheSpecialOne

        For sure. Still living in SA, I must say though that the penchant for provincialism in SA still runs deep.

        Sadly, racist window dressing selection policies have only served to further polarise public opinion.

        But what you say about this year does seem, at least from my experience, to be true. On Rhule for example, it really was just so predictable.

        I’d add a number of overseas based players that I think should be involved: Marcell Coetzee, Duane Vermeulen, Frans Steyn, Bismark and Jannie, Willie Le Roux and JP Pietersen. I’m sure there are others that could add value.

        • Sharky

          Yeah, I have mentioned Bismark and Jannie and JP Pietersen in other posts and nearly got me head bitten off.

          My matchday 22 would probably be:

          15 Frans Steyn (out of position – but he can tackle, runs straight and has a hoof on him. Can also cover 10 and 12. Alternatively Johan Goosen)
          14 Ruan Combrinck
          13 Lukhanyo Am (can also cover 12)
          12 Rohan Janse van Rensburg
          11 JP Pietersen (another controversial one, but I’d prefer not to rush Nkosi – he’s 21, give him time)
          10 Handre Pollard
          9 Ross Cronje
          8 Philip van der Walt (in Whiteley’s absence. An actual 8th man to play as an 8th man – what a thought!)
          7 Kwagga Smith (in Kriel’s absence – he has energy and explosiveness similar to Kriel. Maybe a bit lightweight. Marcell Coetzee could be a beefier alternative)
          6 Siya Kolisi
          5 Pieter-Steph du Toit (better than Mostert atm)
          4 Eben Etzabeth
          3 Ruan Dreyer (in Coenie’s absence – some dislike him, but he scrums well. And we are struggling for 3s atm)
          2 Malcolm Marx
          1 Tendai Mtawarira

          16 Bismark du Plessis (offers experience in a pretty young side – would also consider Akker van der Merwe)
          17 Steven Kitshoff (or Ox Nche)
          18 Lourens Adriaanse (or maybe Jannie du Plessis. I really am struggling with tightheads – open to suggestions)
          19 Franco Mostert
          20 Jean-Luc du Preez (seems to perform better as a super sub)
          21 Faf de Klerk (come home, all is forgiven!! Might also consider Ruan Pienaar / Rudy Paige. NOT Hougie!)
          22 Johan Goosen (Covers FH & FB. Curwin Bosch needs more time, Janjties is shite and Lambie is broken)
          23 S’busiso Nkosi (I would love to see him get 20mins in the green and gold!)

          There we go. I’m sure you disagree with some of those selections, but I am sure we will all agree that it’s better than the current Bok 23.

          • francois williams

            Not a single Cheetah is good enough…more WPie and BB quatas yawn, with a few ex Cheetahs mixed in now playing for Sharkies…yawn…

  • Bok befok

    Maybe not racism, but perceptions definitely does weigh too much, even in so called experts ratings columns (on other sites). I think that Rhule, although he missed 9 tackles, at least 3 of them were off kick offs where he over committed to tackling the receiver of the kick offs, compare that to Hougaards 9 handling errors, Marx’s 5 missed lineouts, that is 14 times us giving the ball back to NZ, and is THE factor that caused us to lose the game by such a heavy margin. and aside from the handling errors, hougaards terribly slow service caused us to have no space on attack, which resulted in an intercept try and kept us playing catch up rugby. I only hope that Hougaard goes back to England, and we maybe look at calling up a scrumhalf who actually just picks up and passes the Freakin ball, instead of taking 3 steps for no good reason…….

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